I'm pretty sure loot council is out of the question. The only thing thing this has been used for in the past is legendaries. The exception to that was Bothi's, and that was because one officer out of the four of us had a huge issue, and still had an issue even after we voted, which was fair imo since we couldn't come to a unanimous agreement. Furthermore, I think loot council will take us too long to figure out in the middle of the raid. What sort of limit would be put on the number of pieces of loot a person can receive in a period of time? Wouldn't this 100% screw apps out of loot? That seems like a bad idea, especially when they're in an important role like a tank. Speaking of tanks, one thing that would be beneficial would be giving tanks tokens first in the future. Furthermore, I'm really uncomfortable deciding who deserves loot vs. who doesn't, and I think the other officers would feel the same way.
Zero sum dkp is a fair system. You are rewarded for showing up for raids, and you have the opportunity to decide for yourself what to save for. One thing that's helpful when people are hoarding is to discuss it with the people below you, come to some sort of agreement that works for those few people, then everyone takes loot if possible. This really only works if there are two or three people pretty far ahead of everyone else. In my opinion the one thing that could be better is getting dkp for wipes, but only for bosses that count as progression. Once we kill a boss we should, in theory, be able to kill it again in relatively few attempts. I think we would need to have some small amount of dkp for a certain number of wipes, say 10, and if we kill it in less or more the amount would change slightly. Remember that the highest dkp we'll get from a boss can be about 4, and that's really just from LK when all the weapons are taken or something similar. I don't really want to inflate the system too much because that will completely screw the people who have legitimate excuses for missing the raid.
We've made our dkp system even more fair imo by allowing offspec items to be bought for 2 dkp. Barely any items that are decent rot due to this. If they do, it means that everyone has it, or others don't play offspec (I don't bother taking healing gear for example).
Gape, I agree with you that some of the values for items should be changed. I don't think some of these values have been updated since the beginning of Sunwell, with the exception of trinkets, and things have obviously changed since then.
- 2 2hs cost 80 dkp, and with a gun/bow it's 110
- MH and OH costs 45 plus a relic/idol/sigil/totem/wand which brings it to 55
- MH and shield costs 55 plus relic/idol/totem brings it to 65, or with a gun or bow it's 85
- one 2h or a staff costs 40, plus a relic/idol/sigil is 50, or with a gun/bow it's 70
- two 1hs cost 60, plus a sigil/totem is 70, or with a gun/bow it's 90
I'm not sure if that's every combination, but it's obvious that there's some big differences there. There's definitely a problem when dps warriors have to spend 110 dkp for their weapon slots while dks only have to spend 70 or 50. These should definitely be worked out somehow especially for people who have to compete against each other for other loot. Would the most fair thing to have different values for each class/spec combination? God, that sounds awful.
I agree that people should keep in mind upgrading from 264 to 277, mostly when you're upgrading the same piece of loot. If you're upgrading from an item that was bought from a vendor or has stats that aren't ideal I'm more okay with that. Other than that, I wouldn't expect someone who has 258 to pass for someone who has 245. You have to remember that if someone has a ton of 245 pieces it means that they didn't spend a lot of 258 dkp, which in most cases is sort of screwing the raid for ICC. There's always exceptions, and sure - apps who came in undergeared have an excuse - or if a bunch of items never dropped there's an excuse, but it's just way too complicated to keep track of that for this long. Keeping track of most of this stuff will be difficult, and you have to consider the amount of work it'll take during the raid for me. I have to kill bosses too
I'm not sure how many raiders actually prepare for new tiers. When the bis list comes out for me, which is fairly early, I calculate how much of an upgrade each item will be for me. Then, I'll try to take loot only near the top of the list. There are usually 3-4 items within a fairly close range. Trinkets are often a huge upgrade, but I don't think they're really worth waiting for. You can wait for a trinket that's a 300-400 dps upgrade, which may not drop for many weeks, or you can get 300 dps upgrade from multiple pieces of gear. If everyone takes loot you could still possibly get the first trinket.
TL;DR: I don't like the idea of loot council; I think zero sum dkp is pretty fair; some item values should be changed; people might want to be considerate when upgrading from 264 to 277; and while hoarding is a personal choice, everyone should give more consideration to taking more loot - don't forget about our Ropetown luck on the items everyone saves for.