Ropetown

WARNING :: RUNON SENTENCES AND ALMOST UNREADABLE ENGLISH AHDEAD :: WARNING

My post might be retarded and redundant to read, but its coming from a paladin who has felt the WRATH of buffing the entire raid for 6 hours a day, 5 days a week, and 9 months total!

alright, you all have a lot of great points and I agree that alliance > horde when it comes to the pallies pve use. They are pretty much the same as shamans except for salvation, wisdom to 40 people, resistance auras while having wisdom out ( unlike ur res totem going down when u do ur mana tide thing ). Just putting some stuff out there that everyone already knows but might not be thinking of. When you say we can buff 40 people with wisdom ( as 1 paladin ) you are not thinking of the 5 minutes the buff lasts and when that 5 minutes runs up the 40 tells we get to buff you again ( (40 seconds down 1 healer) x 5 paladins + (115 mana for the buff x 40 people = 4600 mana) ).<---- MATH EWW. It isn't that cheap and that fun to buff the entire raid. When this rebuffing of the entire raid happens 4 times in a 23 minute long ebonroc kill.... its just arg. And then to top that off every 15-30 seconds having to run in there and rejudge wisdom on the mob that gets knocked off in 5 seconds because of taunts, deep wounds, curses, and dots.... its like damn, when do i get to heal. I guess you are really just sacrificing a healer for a buffbot when you put a paladin in your raid group. When you think about it, it is pretty nice having 39 people fully buffed and 1 bot, our raids usually have 35 people and 5 buff bots.

Pvp its the exact opposite when it comes to shamans and paladins. Shamans have dps, paladins dont. Shamans have an offensive dispell that paladins dont. Shamans have insta casted shocks that act like a kick or silence that can also crit for up to 1200+ dmg, paladins dont. shamans have an insta ae slow with earthbind totem, ae totems, insta heals, they can walk on water ( pwnij for ab ) a travel form... i think? o m g.. almost forgot about windfury totem, and that 70 agi totem or whatever it is. I know that both ropetown and aenigma are pve type guilds and that this doesnt apply to us, but when you are blizzard and are looking at all the complaints people are having about paladins and their pve use... just think about how much the alliance has been complaining for months about how overpowered shamans are in pvp compared to paladins. They did nothing about that... sigh.

end rant and runon sentences.

SW:P ?!!? lol

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--Girdletush

Um what? The heck it's situational. If you can't control your raid's debuffs, then you dont have any business in a serious raid in the first place.

And staying up 22 seconds is a long time, given that you can easily refresh it instantly for a paltry 175 mana. Your paladins seem to be lazy as hell, letting BoS fall off people and not being able to keep up Judgement of Wisdom. You are aware that some guilds have the discipline to keep up THREE SEPERATE RANKS of Judgement up on the mob, right? And they do this regularly...



AHAHAHAHAHAHA, to quote pop, 'nuff said.



That's true, Multani, but you shouldn't need to get tells at all. Obviously whomever does mods for you guys is slacking hard, because it's really not very difficult at all to write a decursive-style mod that buffs people automatically, checking if they have the buff up or not, and automatically applying it, while all you have to do is spam one button. If you have to do this manually following tells, or use that piece of crap called whispercast, then you are working too hard, my friend =)

And 4600 mana isnt really all that much. The problem with these complaints are like saying "yeah, we CAN do that, but its a nuisance"... well shamans can't do it at all. You can just buff one party with BoW, and then dance around because you're just as good as a shaman except you can still resist aura them! The shamans don't have the nuisance of buffing 40 people because they CAN'T DO IT AT ALL! Can easily remove this "nuisance" by making blessings only work within your party...

Well I've been 1 shotted by paladins in pvp. I think paladins are pretty solid as a defensive class in pvp. I mean 2-3 paladins on a flag in AB gl hf killing them before more alliance respawn at gy or get there.

Just think, if we had the original drakes that were untauntable not killable by horde. Now imagine a mob that did -40% more deaggro, they would be unkillable by alliance as well. The whole deaggro thing is fucking stupid IMO. I seriously hope they come up with something better to making encounters difficult in AQ.

JoW stacking should be fixed/nerfed whatever, you can't stack fort, int, gift, etc. Shouldn't be able to stack other stuff either. Windfury does nothing for aggro generation, tanks generate aggro through their abilities not damage. Which is another issue, since their aggro generation isn't increasing but everyones damage is.

But yeah, both classes need to be balanced for pvp and pve, having one be better in one and shitty in the other is stupid.

How else you think priests are getting mana back with JoW?


Smite?

try autowand?

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Indeed. Autowand + SW:P = fast regen.

wand

How often you have to reapply a debuff to a mob has no bearing on how powerful the thing is. How often you have to recast a buff on a raid member has no bearing on how powerful the buff is.

Kings costs 70 mana for a ridiculously powerful effect. The one paladin who is specced for kings really doesn't have any other job in your raid except to cast BoK on your tanks, priests when they need mana regen (10% spirit) and rogues or hunters, depending on the fight. Priests recast shadow prots in the middle of drake fights, and those actually take a substantial amount of mana. How is it any harder for a paladin?

JoW alone can outpace a healer's base mana regen by itself, and mana tide is a cruel joke when it comes to in-combat mana restoration. If you assume it has a 50% proc rate (not sure about that number), that's 59 mana every 2 seconds with autowand. That's 146 mp5, on top of your normal regeneration WITHOUT stacking multiple ranks of the debuff. The longer a fight lasts, the greater the gap between mana restored to horde's priests/shamans and mana restored to alliance priests/paladins/mages/warlocks/hunters (since they all benefit from JoW).

Salvation is just dumb and should be removed from the game. It only seems to help in fights with spammed deaggro effects but may prove better when people are geared well enough to outdps a tank's hate generation (which is always a constant amount, pretty much). But that's where the skill of playing a DPS class comes from, and to remove having to worry about your position on the hate list really makes playing a DPS class rather mindless (hunters have it sooo easy).

Paladins are the best single target healers in the game with the right equipment.

Cleanse > Purge in PvE, but its obviously still not impossible to keep your raid debuff-free, so not a huge advantage.

Concentration Aura is already useful on a couple of fights, and will only become better in the future.

In addition pretty well all of shaman's defensive/buff totems are useless in PvP as they require the buff target to be within 20 yards of a fixed point to receieve benefit (30 with earthfury 3pc). Compare this to blessing of might, basically an equivalent buff to Grace of Air and Strength of Earth together, which has no such leashing requirement.

Drakes were never unkillable for horde, they just required an extraordinarily unbalanced raid group. Something like 1 warrior, 2 shaman, 16 priest with subtlety, 20 hunter would have done the trick. The more healers you have the lower the average aggro of each.

Oh, and fear ward is ezmode Nef.

Wow, I had no idea that dot ticks proc'd the mana gain from JoW. It's even more nuts now.

So uh .. next time we do Azuregos, you guys wanna stop by and JoW him so we can regain some mana? SW: Pain + Devouring Plague + Autowand!

problem is, the fights where it is useful are the fights you need to have fire resistance up, so you really cant be using it.

all im hearing is wahwahwah. if you look at it, alliance are a more tactical faction then horde, hence why horde are better in pvp, and allaince in pve, shamans are better pvp, pallie pve. there is horde guilds that already downed nef, prolly just gotta use more tactical strats to overcome it. im sure on nef, you cc the mobs with earthbind, really helps out im sure(if you can) but basically you eventually beat the encounters, and move on, might take a little bit more then allaince, but once you do it, it becomes easier.
on a side note i would liek to do a bwl no salvation, but im sure there is ppl that have sandy vag's and dont want to =/

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saviorslim - 60 - DPS paladin~

Nef causes shaman to drop WF totems with 5k health, and yes he get's the WF totem buff. What do pallies do when he takes their abilities?

We are having a discussion here, take your cry more attitude and go back to the wow boards.

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--Girdletush

Pallys cast Blessing of Protection on Nef

hey, i was just pointing out what was going on.

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saviorslim - 60 - DPS paladin~