Ropetown

wouldnt those same people then horde for the next items that are the biggest upgrade.

your always going to have people who save and want the best/first/pretties items. I see what fresh is saying and honestly from the pug runs it isnt horrible to council loot some items, and it would only get easier if i had like 3-4 other "officers" in raid who could give there opinion.

The hardest thing about the pugs is i dont have people to back me up, and i usualy fuck it up because some people are super agressive(alsmot demand items) and other people play the silent roll then after the loot goes out they are like "hey remember last week you said i could get that, ttfm" when i merly forgot.

Loot council isnt bad you have to trust your officers, and realize they will make the best choice, even if it doesnt make sence too you.

kind of random and scattered, but here goes. Also, I usually try to not post after I've had coffee. it goes poorly.

rq, I still liked loot council in my last guild even though I mostly mostly hated 2 of the 4 officers.

However, under loot council, instead of hording, ppl will pass a 264 weapon knowing that they will get the 277 version that is going to drop 2 weeks later b/c it'll be a bigger upgrade b/c they didn't take the 264 weapon.

Our current system isn't great. Getting in for tuesday raid and skipping the rest of the week awards you 90% or 100% of the hard mode dkp for the week and 0% of the actual progression. Also, LK 10 man is killable, and not having ppl log on for it is not good. since, there isn't dkp in 10 man, its not worth going to since your just going to replace the 264 gear with 277 stuff anyways. Having 2 groups 11/12 ICC 10 man is best for the guild (more loot + practice on sindra + proff that we need). Find 10 raiders that want to wipe 40 times to lk hm 10 man and put them in a group. I'm pretty sure there aren't more than 15 ish raider that want 80 attempts on lk hm a week. gogo LK HM 10 man progression. Stack a group (despite the drama) and have the 2nd group know that they will easy 11/12, and have they first group know they will put 40 attempts into LK HM.

Bull Shit @ dkp being a fair system.

tonight, 20 wipes on LK HM will provide every raider that shows up 0 hard mode DKP despite being THE ONLY PROGRESSION IN THE GAME ATM. Not showing up will not hurt anyone on getting their BiS 277 gear. Part of the reason we lost raiders and there was drama was because we weren't filling raids after tuesday and had no LK MH progression, which is exactally what you should do if you want your BiS 277 gear with minimal effort.

It really isn't a surprise ppl flake on thursdays for LK HM. Fresh is right. PPL will dodge after getting the gear that needs to be used on the fight they are dodging b/c there is no incentive to show up.

I'm also in a fairly nice place of not having competition. I really would like to upgrade my neck and offhand from 264->277 and get better boots (245 is ewwww). Also, I still consider haste/spirit better than haste/crit, so I'm not competing with casters. lich king is such a long fight and and extra 10% crit doesn't matter when 90% of you healing can't crit (shield spam + renew).

I'm sorry but if a lot of people are dodging because they need idiotic incentives like gear to do progression, then you should recruit replacements for those people and shift them out of the raid, because they're not people you want in your progression raids anyway.

More people have always showed up on Tuesday than other days, but it's the people who are there on Wednesday and Thursday and every day who are the core progression raiders. If there aren't enough of those people, then that is the problem, trying to kick the useless 10-15% of people who flake in the ass with artificial incentives is not really a worthwhile long term strategy.

If the percentage of flakes is way higher than that, then perhaps you should consider shutting down raiding because there is really no point in playing WoW at all if the guild as a whole is not excited by progression.

It only takes 2 flakers of 25 ppl to fuck us and they don't even have to be the same people each week.

Its hard to get exctied @ wiping 20 times to LK HM since the fight has only been killed by 5 guilds on 25 man, and we probably won't see a kill for a month.

Every guild on LK HM is going through the same shit. Its hard to log on and play for 4-5 hours when you know you aren't going to get a kill. Realistically, with a really solid night, we might move from bearly getting to p2 to killing 2-3 sets of valks regularly.

I have been excited to kill every boss (includeing yogg 0 @ 10 min an attempt wipe nights), but its hard when the boss simply isn't killable atm. We aren't going to be the first US guild to down lk 25. We'll need the 15 or 20% buff to kill it, and in the mean time there are 80 lk hm attempts a week to log on for.

Its also not a lack or error in leadership / recruiting / or gear incentives. I'm going to be there pushing for a kill, but its easy to see how someone would not log on and study for a test. Its hard to not be emo and ninja xfer with a fancy new legendary to greener pastures. spending 10-15 hours a week on a repetitive / unkillable fight with ppl that are emo / stressed due to the unkillable fight sux, but its hella fun when its finally down.

If we had 25 people who wanted to be there and give 100% on weds/thurs for zero loot guaranteed and dont care about dkp whoring for items they should be taking anyway then we would be paragon and we would've killed LK by now.

Back here in the real world, people actually don't give 100% and actually do whore dkp. If we replaced all those people, we'd only have 5 to raid with. Thus, you can't just ignore the problem or say to replace those people. Well you can ignore it, but nothing will change then.

I don't even see why people would want to get gear if they don't use it rofl.

The whole point of getting gear is to fail less on progression, I don't understand how people can look at it in any other perspective.

Does it get your dick hard to have good stats? Kinda awkward.

Does it look so cool that you get ur dick hard on it? Kinda kawkward.

Does getting loot in WoW make you think you actually own IRL?

Does getting loot make you farm farm-content faster making your dick hard?

Does 1 get l00t for the simple fact that they get l00t?

Does getting l00t for you make you feel accomplished?

Do you get l00t so you can apply to 0ther guilds and hope to get in cuz u g0t g00d l00t like shitbairdnoobassfucker?

If the answer is YES to any of that you are better off playing fucking shoniqua g0es to shoniqua school

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i <3 zig

idk if you answered yes it sounds like you'd enjoy the beautiful hiking simulator TES: Oblivion.

Perhaps, but they'd be much less tempted to hoard for something that's, say, 100dps more than other upgrades, as opposed to Trinkets which can amount to over ten times that

ya im not sure about other classes but necks* fixt and rings are generally only like 50-100 dps upgrade

whereas weapons and trinkets can literally be game breaking in the fact that they can be anywhere from 500 - > 1500

poor design by blizzard but there you have it

and also i managed to play a whole 2 hrs of smacs fav rpg there b4 getting so bored i wanted to kill my fam

yea it sux that was the point of the joke

i assume first trinkets is necks

Yeh, changing subject for something that happened on ... tuesday?

While I agree with a lot of the random methods to fix dkp hording, preventing shit getting DE'd, etc, etc, I ran into a fun thing last week which could be fairly detrimental to the guild over the next little bit unless we recruit someone specifically to fill the slot we're missing. It's similar to the other problems we've had, in which you'd have to make your own judgement calls on it, buuuut, long story short:

As far as playing combat, I initially steered towards mutilate because I felt it had a higher skillcap juggling between 3 hunger for blood stacks, being punished if you let it fell off, keeping an eye on slice and dice, aaaaand rupture.

Now it's boring as ass. Open .. Mutilate till 4-5, envenom, repeat every time the envenom buff falls off. Going by the fact this is faceroll easy enough already, I'm more than willing to switch it up and help the raid out while doing it. The only problem is, I'm not willing to shit all my dkp away buying 2 types of gear for it. Self serving? To a limited degree, I'd be more than happy to pass up things like heroic DBW to someone who needs it more, since I'd be considering it main > alt spec.

Gearwise? For the most part, all combat gear has arp on it, all mutilate gear has haste on it. There are slight pieces of gear (Sindragosa's Cruel Claw) that have both, and are therefore considered best for both specs. Other stuff? Well, for example:

Best in slot leggings are T10 Legs. Alternatives to this are Abyss Crystal.

Now, while the best point-for-point itemization is on the T10 ones, the Gangrenous ones have asstons of hit, bonus slot for arparparp, and most importantly, no expertise, which is easily cappable using other "best in slot" rogue pieces like Ikfirus's sack of wonder.

I've got no problem hooking up "proof" of intent to use this as combat such as me parading around in the gear gemmed for arp the following day, or week, or month, or just being inspected to make sure I didn't bamboozle some randy ass mutilate item (we already have best in slot mut stuff listed, so I doubt this would be necessary, but I'm always willing to go an extra step to be believed, especially after advantages have been taken in the past)

Upsides?

4% Melee Buff (this one is key because we're stacked for cleave. We have dps issues on valks. Do iit. Bladeflurry/fok/blabla rapes them shits)
Allows for better equipment swaps.
Me/Sargaz wind up with more gear.
Cataclysm buff/nerf avoidance.
Sargaz having more incentive to show up (k it's a long shot but I have to list it since pen gear can be used for randy dance too)
Bothi not doing shitty dps as arms on LK.

Downsides?

Guildbank gets less shards.
Ability to work stuff to get random gear that would be DE'd for other purposes than combat for cheap DKP.

Considering nobody would have found out about the whole dkp thing in its entirety (this refers to the wodins, not the axe) if it hadn't been for me, I'd like to think of myself as too fucking honest to go around looting randomass randy gear that was going to get DE'd just to stockpile it for cheap dkp.

And last but not least, DKP for attempts is fragile, because you're no longer using a 0 sum dkp system, in which you get dkp based on other people looting shit. PENALTIES however, are just as good. -1 to -5 DKP per LK wipenight per person = a lot of unhappy skippers, that need to find a new fucking guild so they can dodge without penalties, and a lot of happy campers that showed up and wiped all night for the DKP that the skipping people forfeited.

Make them dodgey fucks buy 5dkp priced bricks and redistribute that to the raid.

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Not a spy.

Agreed with all of that, especially rewarding wipe night attendance in any fashion possible, and also re:valks we need expose too. Maybe rogs expose two of them and all the warriors are on one and stack up on each others sunders, or something, but we need to start getting to the meaty part of the fight to keep these jacked apps around