Ropetown

One of the problems is that most of the people in the guild, frankly, have no clue how to value their loot and are unbelievably lazy as fuck about figuring out what a good upgrade path for them is.

Example: Starshard's Edge was the penultimate weapon in Ulduar, but I grabbed every item I could starting with Hodir staff because I knew it was basically an end-of-instance weapon(even when they put it on Mimiron, lolz) and that all the other upgrades I would have had to pass were more important.

Then came ToC, when the trinkets were absolutely RETARDEDLY overpowered compared to every other item -- so I had to hoard. I haven't examined ICC, but I doubt there's any item worth hoarding for. Frankly, WotLK is different from TBC and previous instances. There's more evenly good loot, and most stuff is much closer to BIS than ever before.

I've started ranking items based on how big of an upgrade they are for me vs their cost, and that's what people should be doing.

A lot of hoarding is simple a psychological thing where people think they need this big weapon upgrade first.... you don't. The next instance has stuff that is +19 itemlevels over what you have now. Items don't stay BIS for multiple tiers anymore.

Given that normal mode dkp becomes irrelevant really fast these days, it seems like gearing up an offspec is easier than ever. Spend your dkp.

DKP that gets erased on a tier change didn't do you any good.

people arent going to spend dkp for offpsec period, so we need to address that problem. even a suicide kings for offspec would be simple/fast/work

Be like a chair, take everything and anything! Even if you don't get the first of something in particular, it comes around again eventually. Not like Cataclysm is a month away. Stop letting upgrades, no matter how minor, go to shards. Every little bit will help when it comes to Heroic ICC.

really good write up vulture.

I'm curious to know what is required to be able to maintain the dkp system that decays over time. How much of a pain in the ass would that be? Same goes for second dkp system for offspec.


Itera I think it's substantially different now, and that there is no real benefit to having offspec items cost dkp, unless the gbank needs shards.

yea verdy, my thoughts exactly. If too much offspec loot is being grabbed, then the powers that be can just say "sharding offspec this week" so its not biased and we just replinish our stack.

-Itera, people that are competitively holding their raid spots with their dps, but perform other roles in 10mans, or even sometimes in 25 mans shouldnt be punished. I dont see why someone should have to spend points on for something as they do as a favor for the guild.

Bairdy Healing/Tanking
Gape Tanking
Yakub healing
Adelaid DPSing
Gerrald healing

These are just a few situations i've seen, theres been many more. They all app/participate in main function raids as 1 set spec. Anything else they do is purely a benefit to the guild that they can maintain it, punishing their main spec to be able to tank/heal 10 mans isnt going to be appealing to anyone.

as far as DKP hoarding, i think the easiest way to go bananas is to just blow your load on anything and everything in either normal or heroic, then just hoard in the other one to cherry-pick the 1-2 items you really really want.- in ToC i went haywire buying every single heroic slot and i just sat in normal mode spending 0 to get a trinket (JOKES ON ME). its viable but i really think people should be discouraged from hoarding in both brackets just so they can get a normal/heroic trinket first instead of being fully geared with 1-2 superb items saved from other set

my 2 cents

I also think you'd see even more people filling multiple roles if the offspec loot policies were modified.

I really like the pre-purchasing idea that was suggested (though could be a pain to maintain, and sucks if the pre-purchased item never drops lol). But, it beats hoarding the dkp for something that never drops AND not getting any other useful upgrades.

The offspec loot being separate/free also seems like it would be helpful to the guild as a whole. If things are getting sharded, and you don't need the shards, it would be nice if someone could use it for an offspec to help the guild in 10mans or w/e.

The system we are using just seems out dated. There are just too many drops and everyone has an offspec.

I would be down for just doing suicide loot for offspecs. we could limit abuse that way. If someone were caught saying an item was offspec yet they are using it then we charge them for the item plus a small penalty for trying to skirt the system. I personally dont think that there would be that much abuse.

Example:

Item is going to be DE'd a tell will go to whoever is doing offspec loot. then it will be decided who gets the item based off a suicide offspec list. Much the same way tier tokens are being done now.

@Tyde: you say it comes around again eventually, but the guild currently has zero heroic reign of the deads even after months of raiding (excluding sancus ofc cuz he quit) I don't want to spend 25 dkp for a 2 dps upgrade when I could spend 25 dkp later on a different item for a 200 dps upgrade. actually totc is a bad example instance anyway because 25 man items were slathered with +hit when I had virtually no items with hit and already had +18% hit, so anything I would've taken would've been a downgrade anyay.

@Verdy: I could probably ask shibou what they use to do it, just to see how another guild automates (or doesnt) their dkp. maybe there's something as simple as eqdkp you can just install.

@Goober: I don't think gbank really needs shards anyway. since randies drop like 3-4 sharded epixxx per run, the price of epic shards is cheap as balls. I'd say an offspec 258 is probably worth a shit ton more than 60g worth of crystal.
@Goober: and yeah I did that exact same thing in both Ulduar and totc... I blew my dkp in normal mode and horded in heroic. I think I was like 9th in line for normal reign of the dead. I imagine that initial dkp seed helps out here, where if you're high on heroic, you horde heroic but blow normal... and then if you're low on seed, you can blow heroic (since you wont get anything anyway from those horders) and save normal, since the heroic horders might blow on normal. well... if it were just you and me goob, it'd work out and totc was nice cuz there were completely different instances for normal and heroic, so you got 2 completely similar sets of loot on 2 different dkp lists.

@Ben: I'd think it'd be pretty simple sometimes (at officers' discretion) to determine whether loot is offspec or not. the only gray area would be something like elemental vs resto for you, where an item drops with dmg/crit/haste... well, I think that's both resto and elemental, so if you took something like that, it would have to be main spec, not offspec... idk. I mean if your main spec had mp5 on it and you preferred using the mp5 piece for main spec instead of the haste or something, then you prob would've only used it for offspec and not main. so yeah, I guess there are some issues. I think a lot of loot is pretty obviously offspec though (e.g. defense on plate vs armor pen).

i never understood why people dont use a dkp cap. we did this in apoc and it basicly pushed you gently to spend dkp rather then hording. on the flip side you could horde for one item, but when you spent dkp you would end up spending more.

eg

player a saves dkp to cap (100), buys items because he doesnt want to waste dkp, goes down to 80dkp

player b saves dkp to cap (100), really wants the same item, it doesnt drop for 3 weeks, finaly when it does he had 125 dkp. he buys item and is sent to 80 dkp, but because he was over cap and knew ahead of time, it ended up costing him 45dkp instead of 20.

its more of an incentive to spend dkp, then a punishment. its gears people up pretty evenly as well.

the offspec thing should be done threw honesty... but theres always someone who will try to fuk the system.

basicly like you said, people dont want to spend dkp on offspec, it should be free.

If a chest drops with everything you use for resto you should have to pay dkp for it, since you would use it for resto anyways. offspec items should be blatent. A healer with hit, items that have stats you dont use, but your other spec does.

ya I was kidding about needing shards...just saying if they cost dkp, that's all that really happens until people have everything, or new instances comes out..

f u goobtron

<< Also setting up a Ret set. It's not amazing, but it's 4pc T9.45. Rings and trinkets suck but everything's epic at the very least.

this is so hard to figure out it gives me a headache

Just make the offspec stuff /roll. Simple and fair. Who gives a shit about void crystals, they are worthless almost now.