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| DKP for Cataclysm & your suggestions http://www.ropetown.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5072 |
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| Author: | TiG [ Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:49 pm ] |
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dkp cap will fix that vulture like i said. You horde you end up paying more. |
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| Author: | vulture [ Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:06 pm ] |
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TiG wrote: dkp cap will fix that vulture like i said. You horde you end up paying more.
TLDR was there a low end cap too? or does blowing my load still fuck me in the long run? |
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| Author: | itera [ Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:24 pm ] |
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nah you can keep going negative |
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| Author: | Gape [ Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:47 pm ] |
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Eh... while cap discourages hoarding a little, it would not eliminate it. The 100% attendance people are still all nearly tied for the trinket or end-boss weapon that they want, and they rot things that they'd otherwise loot accordingly. And this usually means all of the offspec loot, no matter how low the price is. And these are the people that are in all of your raids. So those very highly desired items should just never be in that pool in the first place, the drop rate just hangs over the guild like a guillotine. If the most highly desired items in the DKP pool is stuff like jewelry, where it may be highly contested, but isn't inherently 10 times better than a bracer, then a cap system would work fine |
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| Author: | flipoit [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:04 am ] |
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I confess I haven't read all 4 pages, but I'll post my suggestion anyways since I did DKP for a while. I thought of this when I was baked so it might be incredibly stupid and apologize if it is. I think DKP takes too much time and effort for a video game, and turns loot into a points game. I'm not a fan of loot councils cause the decision making is being left to people, and people will ALWAYS have bias' it's human nature. My suggestion is a list with rules, but divide it up: weapons, armor, tokens, and jewelery (so four separate lists. It's clear and concise people know where they stand for loot like DKP but easier to manage imo. We could have each officer handle a category to speed up loot distribution process since they are effectively separate systems from one another. A DKP style system that follows a rule set instead of maths! Example rules: Showing up for a raid would bump you up one spot or a no wipe kill awards bumps those people up one spot. Heroic loot would maybe say drop you 25 spots, or another item drops you 2-3 spots (off spec?). It's so simple you could just have a forum thread for each category, with values on those items in a second post. Edit the forum post as the raid goes so everyone can see exactly where they are. |
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| Author: | cesrae [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:50 am ] |
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mainhand/offhand/bows/shields and trinkets are pretty much priority usually over anything else so i could see maybe these being councild along with sigils/relics/wands. basically everyone needs these and will get them(RNG) but It will just go to the right players whether its tank first/healers/ or our top whatever dps at the time. I just think it will make it less of a deal with people hoarding dkp for the good items, even though it will suck if say I was overlooked by the officers, but thats the way shit goes. Its basically the same way we did council for lich king/halion. While loot doesnt matter to some people we have given away weapons/trinkets to apps/ fill ins only for them to be denied/mia/or just stop playing. We pretty much know who we are most likely to feel comfortable getting loot cuz you rock. If its an upgrade say you want it. its up to the council to determine if another person could get more benefit at the time. the only time this will change is when we get to the point of BiS items. (Its getting to the point now where item lvl usually is the determining factor of an upgrade now with reforging) Link your current item to elenya so council could make a decision based off what you currently have, attendance, attitude, etc. If your attendance has been spotty, and you link your shitty item to elenya i dont think she would feel comfortable giving you an upgrade would you? now that we arent hoarding for the best upgrades, we can use our current dkp system for neck/bracers/belt/rings, making it even less of a blunder for people getting offspec loot all the while if no one needs mainspec/or specific mainspec(IE. Moonkin/Cat) weapons or w/e it still gets councild to someones offspec that will/could use it during specific encounters/comps at no real dkp cost but still promoting people to get offspec gear. then the tier tokens being done the same way as we have been doing only if you miss raids you just get bumped down a slot(during farmed content or progression) lets promote people being here even though sometimes you have to get shit done irl sometimes. tokens can always be given to whoever at any time ofc like we have been doing with our apps/returning players but just depends on what the officers feel like doing. sorry if i dont make sense some more suggestions |
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| Author: | Ben [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:52 pm ] |
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For me the issue with loot distribution has always come down to rewarding the individual versus advancing the guild. If you truly have the right combination of players that can put the guild progressing in front of his or her own desires than it will be a pleasure to watch you guys climb back into the top 50 (or better) in the world. I suspect the roster is pretty close to that judging from a lot of these posts and most likely a straight points system might not be the best in that situation. Straight points systems are not efficient in my opinion as there just too many ways to cheese them. I would be interested in seeing how a ranking system like the one for tokens would work if applied to more items. It seems pretty obvious that you guys know what the most coveted items are going be and you could come up with a "suicide list" if you will for those items. The most difficult part would be deciding the order in the first place but you could just use past attendance or just random for order. Something like this: DKP would be earned and spent as normal for the basic items, non BIS, and offspec loot. Token List would remain the same. New list's for BIS: DPS Main Hand DPS Offhand Spell Main(separate healer and dps if possible) 2-Hander Staff Shield Bow And so on... Likely you wouldn't even need as many lists as above those are just an example. Once the lists are generated everyone will know where he or she stands. With these lists however you can have some control over who ranks up based on all the factors that are most important to the guild (attendance,performance,etc). I think this would be superior to officer loot in that is is more transparent and faster in terms of in game distribution. Item X drops: If it is an item on a list the loot is distributed to the top player automatically by Elenya. (Again the lists would actually speed up the in game process of loot distribution.) If it is a DKP item than tells go to Elenya as usual. Organizing the reward system for 30+ people is not a trivial matter. In my opinion the rewards system is the single most important thing that the guild leadership needs to get right. So if Elenya has to spend a couple extra minutes working it out before and after the raid than so be it. She will be taken care of in the long run with some sort of item, such as the LK mount or whatever. A poorly conceived loot system will always cause tension among the type of competitive people that you would want in a guild. If you don't want to spend time developing a system than just free roll and let random luck decide. Obviously this is just a suggestion but one I believe merits some thought. Now coming up with the penalty system could much trickier but I suppose that boils down to how much you trust Zigg to be fair (which is a no brainer imo). Good luck with whatever direction you take and I look forward to seeing you all in game some time after the new year. Cheers |
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| Author: | vulture [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:53 pm ] |
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I've always liked having a separate list for shit link trinkets/weapons and make the rest on whatever. The common response was always "its too much work" but if we can work past that with all the other dkp system overhaul then cool beans. I've also always disliked the nonset-but-set-piece-slots loot costing SHIT TONS of dkp when the 100% free set piece is almost always 100% preferable. But set pieces come slow and the nonset shit usually rots cuz nobody wants to blow dkp on shit they will eventually replace to earn a set bonus. Even back in the day I would've liked them to be no more than 10 dkp, but I think a separate pool would be okay too. |
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| Author: | cesrae [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:31 pm ] |
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vulture wrote: I've also always disliked the nonset-but-set-piece-slots loot costing SHIT TONS of dkp when the 100% free set piece is almost always 100% preferable. But set pieces come slow and the nonset shit usually rots cuz nobody wants to blow dkp on shit they will eventually replace to earn a set bonus. Even back in the day I would've liked them to be no more than 10 dkp, but I think a separate pool would be okay too. true vulture. would be nice if loot like that wouldnt get de'd cuz it could be used even if it is for a short period of time. what do the officers have to say? can we see what direction they want to go in and start building more off that after reading and talking about all these great ideas. |
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